Re: War stories from the Trenches - things they don't teach in library scho Bob Watson 2008-10-31T19:51:28Z 2008-10-31T19:51:28Z

Not everyone requires a photo ID. Some of us get by with a letter &#040;preferably a bill&#041; sent to the person&#039;s local address.<br /><br />Then again, I&#039;m in Illinois where the ability to get a library card is based upon where one lives &#040;and pays taxes&#041;. Other locations vary.

Bob Watson 2008-10-31T19:51:28Z Leah Langby 2008-10-31T14:05:03Z 2008-10-31T14:05:03Z

I have another question for everyone. As I talk to community leaders, ESL teachers, providers of services to the Spanish&#045;speaking population around here, it seems like a major barrier for many folks to use the library is the fact that libraries in our system require a photo ID in order to get a library card. I&#039;m trying to do some research about what other libraries do about this, how they balance the need to be able to keep track of materials with the need to make sure everyone has access to those materials. Any ideas? <br />Thanks so much.<br />Leah

Leah Langby 2008-10-31T14:05:03Z Brigid Cahalan 2007-02-05T18:13:08Z 2007-02-05T18:13:08Z

Hi Matthew,<br />You ask which libraries have English conversation practice programs &#040;sometimes called Talk Time&#041;&#059; let me jump in with a few. I work for The New York Public Library and we have three lively ones going on in Manhattan &#040;two libraries&#041; and the Bronx &#040;one library&#041;. Also, I live across the mighty Hudson River in New Jersey, and my local library&#045;&#045;the Pavonia branch of the Jersey City Public Library is starting a cycle of conversational sessions this Wednesday &#040;2/7/07&#041;. The Hoboken Library has had a vibrant program running for quite a few years. There are several more in Bergen County libraries&#045;&#045;let me know if you want details on this.<br />Good Luck!<br />Brigid

Brigid Cahalan 2007-02-05T18:13:08Z Bob Watson 2006-01-17T14:33:36Z 2006-01-17T14:33:36Z

As Heraclitus put it, &#034;You cannot step in the same river twice.&#034; <br /><br />The community retains the same name, but its components change &#045;&#045; and that is what is important to keep in mind.

Bob Watson 2006-01-17T14:33:36Z Rachel Van Noord 2006-01-17T01:11:12Z 2006-01-17T01:11:12Z

I read this post on It&#039;s all Good, a blog written by OCLC employees, this afternoon &#040;yes, the same OCLC that WebJunction is affiliated with, but not the WebJunction blog <img alt='emoticon' src='http://il.webjunction.org/webjunction-theme/images/emoticons/happy.gif' />, and I think it relates to the solution you&#039;ve described, while putting it under the broader umbrella of the change libraries need to make to stay relevant.<br /><br />Check it out, when you have a chance:<br />http://scanblog.blogspot.com/2005/11/change.html

Rachel Van Noord 2006-01-17T01:11:12Z Bob Watson 2006-01-10T19:05:10Z 2006-01-10T19:05:10Z

I don&#039;t know about leveraging ... though you might think of it as a form of judo. I did it to keep the &#034;English only&#034; folks at bay and know of only a couple people who actually read our Polish books. The Spanish&#045;language population is growing and I wanted to make sure that I could help meet their needs with minimum controversy.<br /><br />Also, we set up part of our library foundation to fund Polish books on a regular basis. This gives it a long&#045;term veneer of respectability, you might say ... similar to our local history collecting. <br /><br />This was a &#034;strategic decision&#034; on my part. <br /><br />I should note that, in my experience, there are Spanish&#045;language populations and Spanish&#045;language populations. Those moving into this particular area will, in all probability, be expecting their kids to learn English since they&#039;ve literally &#034;bought into&#034; the community &#040;purchased homes&#041;. The library district just south of us, though, has a large Spanish&#045;speaking population which has easy access to Spanish&#045;speaking shops and groceries. English may be seen as optional. <br /><br />That said, there are a couple older areas within my district where housing is likely to remain relatively cheap &#040;no city sewers for one thing&#041;. Thse could easily &#034;flip&#034; &#040;as the real estate agents put it&#041; and I need to keep that in mind.

Bob Watson 2006-01-10T19:05:10Z Rachel Van Noord 2006-01-10T18:37:17Z 2006-01-10T18:37:17Z

Interesting...it sounds as though you&#039;ve leveraged the historic culture of your area as the library serves a newer population. I&#039;d love to hear more about the challenges and successes you&#039;ve seen, both in among library staff and patrons as you&#039;ve taken this approach to serving spanish speakers. Also, was this planned approach by library staff?

Rachel Van Noord 2006-01-10T18:37:17Z Bob Watson 2006-01-09T23:07:01Z 2006-01-09T23:07:01Z

I think part of the issue involves staying out of the local politics of it ... if you can find a way to do so.<br /><br />My library is in an area which, 40 or so years ago, had a lot of lakeside/lake surroundings cottages owned by middle&#045;class Polish types, skilled machinists and such, who could not afford 2nd homes in better areas. This was the &#034;Polish Riviera&#034; to the hotsy&#045;totsy Chicago types. :&#045;&#041;<br /><br />Anyway, having a smallish Polish collection makes our having a larger Spanish collection rather easier to justify. It eliminates the &#034;we&#039;ve always spoken English here&#034; argument.

Bob Watson 2006-01-09T23:07:01Z len lopinto 2006-01-09T22:41:05Z 2006-01-09T22:41:05Z

Matthew, Its Len. You know me. I&#039;m joining in because as director of the Paramus Public Library I&#039;ve seen how esl programs, collections and world language collections not only helps the library to be more vital to the community but also helps the library as an organization. When I became the director of the Paramus Public Library in 2000 the library did not have esl or world language collections. I was determined we would have these collections and programs in the library. Not just as an extention of our services but as core services. The library had just suffered through 5 years of budget cuts. i believed these programs would help turn that around. 32&#037; of paramus population spoke english as their second language. We had to get these people to use the valuable services the library offers. <br />In 2001 we developed a plan and got board and staff backing. Each year we have added a program and extended the expenditures on collection development of esl and languages. As we enter 2006 we have 125 students are being tutored. 30 in conversation groups and 45 in class instruction.&#040; these are all adults &#041; Last year we spent $ 12,000 on world collections and $5,000 on esl materials. Since 2000, our circulation has increased from 300,000 to 375,000. Our funding has increased from 1.5 million to over 3 million. I believe circulation and funding have increased because we are serving the entire community. That&#039;s all for now. we can discuss more later. Len

len lopinto 2006-01-09T22:41:05Z Laura Staley 2006-01-09T18:32:17Z 2006-01-09T18:32:17Z

Matthew,<br /><br />That is outstanding news! Your post just made my day.<br />Laura

Laura Staley 2006-01-09T18:32:17Z Matthew Mitchel 2006-01-09T17:43:13Z 2006-01-09T17:43:13Z

I thought you would all like to know that the ESL student decided learning English was more important than holding on to a low paying job. She quit her job, found a new job with a boss that wants her to learn English, and has come back to class.

Matthew Mitchel 2006-01-09T17:43:13Z Karen Harris 2006-01-04T01:07:46Z 2006-01-04T01:07:46Z

This is an unfortunate situation. Of major importance is that your student not<br />become discouraged by her employer&#039;s lack of support. If there is any way<br />she can get involved with a day class this may be the answer. Even if it<br />is not taught by you Matthew, she will feel your support and probably take your<br />suggestion. There are always these road blocks&#040; i.e. people with backward thinking!&#041; that come up, but they can be surmounted. Good luck!

Karen Harris 2006-01-04T01:07:46Z Ramiro Ramirez 2005-12-30T04:51:36Z 2005-12-30T04:51:36Z

Unfortunately this is one of the challenges we face as immigrants, is all about survival and how we can help other members of the family. Many times employer realize our weak point and take advantage of the situation. Education is a secondary necessity for most immigrants. Hopefully later down the road she could find a way to go continue school. Perhaps she could use audio/video material so she study at her own pace.

Ramiro Ramirez 2005-12-30T04:51:36Z Betty Marcoux 2005-12-21T00:34:10Z 2005-12-21T00:34:10Z

Fascinating topic and interesting responses. Being currently a faculty member at a library school, this type of information is most helpful to me. I only hope we can find a way to better incorporate your suggestions into the curriculum. Thank goodness for OJT that all of you do!

Betty Marcoux 2005-12-21T00:34:10Z Laura Staley 2005-12-20T19:31:52Z 2005-12-20T19:31:52Z

Saythe,<br /><br />Sorry your post regarding ESL classes got a bit lost in the shuffle. I would venture to guess that many libraries &#040;espcially in states with larger populations of new immigrants are offering ESL classes or partnering with community organizations that offer classes. Many libraries also offer citizenship classes to new immigrants.<br /><br />I want to point you to another post by Christie Williams, the literacy director at the Mesa County Public Library in Colorado. They have a very successful ESL program and Christie has provided some great links in her post: http://webjunction.org/forums/message.jspa?messageID=18498&#035;18498<br /><br />ALA&#039;s office of Literacy and Outreach Services also provides some helpful links to ESL resources: http://www.ala.org/ala/olos/outreachresource/servicesnewnonreaders.htm&#035;contentareas<br /><br />And WebJunction has several links to online ESL tutorials available at: http://www.webjunction.org/do/Navigation?category=8002<br /><br />I hope this helps and please tell us more about your community and the ESL instruction you are considering.<br />Laura

Laura Staley 2005-12-20T19:31:52Z Steve DelVecchio 2005-12-19T19:03:36Z 2005-12-19T19:03:36Z

Making collection development decisions, even without language and culture coming into it is always hard! In 20 years of working in libraries I&#039;ve never seen a situation where we had even close to what we needed to provide everything we wanted to our community.<br /><br />This is part of why it is so important to have a collection development policy&#045;&#045;ideally one that is strongly tied to the library&#039;s stated mission and to a strong understanding of the community. Just as with challenges to materials, a collection development policy helps staff when folks complain. It can make it clear that the library has really given careful thought to the needs of all of the folks in the community.<br /><br />This doesn&#039;t make it easy&#045;&#045;but it can be a big help!

Steve DelVecchio 2005-12-19T19:03:36Z Laura Staley 2005-12-19T18:29:12Z 2005-12-19T18:29:12Z

Matthew,<br /><br />I think you make a good point about patrons having an expectation that the library has materials available in their language if the library is doing outreach to their community. <br /><br />Personally, I don&#039;t know a lot about collection development but I wonder if census data can or should help make the case for how materials budgets are spent? In 2000, 18&#037; of the US population spoke a language other than English at home. You can tell Archie Bunker that the majority of this group also spoke English very well! http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr&#045;29.pdf.

Laura Staley 2005-12-19T18:29:12Z Matthew Mitchel 2005-12-19T17:38:27Z 2005-12-19T17:38:27Z

Sorry, in advance, if this post sounds a little shrill. <br /><br />Having lived in South Korea for three years, I can relate with the &#034;have nots&#034; more than the &#034;haves&#034;. You see, Mr. Bunker, always has the ability to ILL a book from another library or, worst case scenario, go to the local Barnes and Noble megastore. The Tagalong, Japanese, Hindi speaker doesn&#039;t have the same access to reading materials that the English speaker does in the U.S. And, when they do, the cost for the book is substantially higher than the English equivalent. In our system, non&#045;fiction circulation is basically flat&#045;line and over half our circs come from media &#040;DVDs, CDs, and Videos&#041;. We are basically providing access to entertainment instead of information &#040;it&#039;s cool, to a point, because entertainment is part of the mission statement&#041;. But, one could argue that some of this money would be better spent providing services to a population that can&#039;t spend $19.95 a month for an &#034;all you can eat&#034; Netflix account or drive to the local Book Box Store. A new collection development policy might be &#045; purchase non&#045;fiction requests only and use the rest of the money to acquire books for our non&#045;English speaking patrons.<br /><br /> This all comes down to the question of Outreach. Why bother outreaching to a community that we aren&#039;t going to provide service for? Just talking about outreach to spanish community should imply that we are willing to provide them with books and magazines &#040;and perhaps the ESL frosting to the library cake&#041;. My first library job was at the Berklee College of Music and our director had a basic sniff test for any collection we wanted to start &#045; how are we going to maintain the collection past the initial investment. If a library is going to rely on the generosity of the population to provide money and donations to maintain the collection, I don&#039;t think the library should bother. Any collection the library is going to provide to the community should be funded through the library&#039;s budget. If the community wants to donate money or books to expand upon the library&#039;s investment, that is fine. But the library should be making a yearly &#034;good faith&#034; investment into the collection. <br /><br />Ultimately the library is a business &#045; our business is circulations. You and I both know that circs aren&#039;t the best indicators of how a library is doing, but it is a number that the pols can understand. This year in Paramus, we added 413 new Korean books to the collection and every single one of the has circualted at least once. The collection as a whole has averaged 7 circs per item. How many libraries can claim to have 100&#037; circulation of a collection that isn&#039;t video? <br /><br />Once again, I apologize for the shrillness of the post &#040;this is my favorite soapbox&#041;, but this is a topic I feel strongly about. I lived in Korea for three years and it was lonely and isolating and sometimes I just wanted to come back to the U.S. so badly that I would have left my job for the price of a plane ticket. When I was in Korea, no one expected mre to speak Korean. But in America, we expect everyone to speak English. Isn&#039;t this strange.

Matthew Mitchel 2005-12-19T17:38:27Z Rachel Wagner 2005-12-19T17:12:47Z 2005-12-19T17:12:47Z

I was truly fortunate to take three classes on serving diverse populations in libraries at San Jose State. It was exciting to be with like&#045;minded professors and peers who felt the urgency to reach out to underserved populations. <br /><br />When I provide services in Spanish, it has always been warmly received. Regardless, I found that beyond language, most patrons have responded warmly to courtesy, patience and a geniune desire on the part of the staff member to determine and fill their needs. As such, &#034;Nice&#034; works universally for me.

Rachel Wagner 2005-12-19T17:12:47Z Tuki Sathaye 2005-12-16T22:05:21Z 2005-12-16T22:05:21Z

Interested in knowing if there are any libraries in the U.S. that provide ESL instruction to patrons as an extension of the services they offer.

Tuki Sathaye 2005-12-16T22:05:21Z